320. Enhancing Your Book's Packaging with Marrielle Myers

Author and educator Marrielle Myers talks about picture books, how she makes her packages stand out, and how you can also find success in your final product.

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Visit Marrielle's website and grab a copy of her book:
https://www.marleelovesmath.com/

Check out her socials:
https://www.instagram.com/marleelovesmath/
https://www.facebook.com/people/Marleelovesmath/61568324259128/

Transcript

Jennia: Hello, I'm Jennia D'Lima! Welcome to Writing and Editing, the author-focused podcast that takes a whole-person approach to everything related to both writing and editing. When we sell copies of our books, we have so many options available to us, from mailing the book on its own in a standard mailer, to going all out with thank you notes, custom packaging, and other extras. Marielle Myers is here to share how she enhances her picture books packaging and why it's something you might want to consider doing with your own books.

Jennia: I'm so thrilled to have you here today. Thank you for coming!

Marrielle Myers: Thank you so much for inviting me! I'm so excited to be here and for the opportunity to share and hopefully spark conversation with the listeners.

Jennia: Yes! This is one those times where I wish we did have video just because—well, people will have to go look at your link and see. But everything is so unbelievably cute and it is all themed so well, even the little extras that you include, they just look so cohesive with the cover!

Marrielle Myers: Thank you, thank you! I spent a lot of time on it. And I'm sure we'll kind of get into some of the details, but I think one thing I'll say is that it was important that broadly the visual presentation reflect my energy as a person. And I love bright colors. I love that colors can just kind of make us smile, and remind us of other things, and send us warmth. And so, overall, when I was thinking about my color palette, and I had that conversation with the illustrator, I'm like, "We need to go bright, we need to go bold," just kind of all the way.

Jennia: Oh, I love that! Well, before we get into the questions, I think it's important for listeners to know something about you and about your book so that they can see how all the included items tie into your story. So if you could just give a quick summary of Operation Feed the Ducks and maybe a bit of your background?

Marrielle Myers: I will! Yes! So I am from Durham, North Carolina, born and raised there. Never moved. When I go back home to Durham, I go back to my childhood home and bedroom, which is pretty amazing. And there was a river a few minutes away from us, the Eno River. And every Saturday, my dad took us there to feed the ducks. Like, literally every Saturday—we had a routine.

Jennia: That is so sweet!

Marrielle Myers: Yeah! And as a child, I thought like, "Oh, Daddy's taking us today. And so maybe it's Mommy's day off." And then as an adult, I learned, I think, mommies don't get days off (Jennia laughs), they just need to be able to do things in the house without interruption (laughs).

Jennia: Right!

Marrielle Myers: That's more of what was happening. So that was always a beautiful memory for me. And we would even take some of the neighbors' kids with us at times as well. And so that memory has always lived in my heart. And I always loved math growing up. So I used to play school and teach math. I love math in school. Studied it for my undergraduate degree, and both my master's and doctorate are in mathematics education. And when I tell people that they're kind of like, "Math? Why? Ugh. I'm not a math person! Ugh, how do you do that? You must be a genius." And I try to push back against those things—

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: —because I think we are all math people. You know, we have to be. And I think there's a lot of things that we do that are mathematical that we don't necessarily recognize. Because math is, like, not only advanced calculus or it's not only trigonometry, right? But, like, patterns are math. When I'm packing leftovers after dinner and I'm trying to decide, is this go going to fit in this container or that one? Right? That's spatial reasoning, which is math.

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: And so I want everybody to kind of identify that they are math people. And I also don't want people to think that if you're a math person, that means I'm not and I never can be.

Jennia: Ohh, okay.

Marrielle Myers: And so I try to disrupt that when people say that. And one way I wanted to continue that was to embed mathematics in a children's picture book so that families and caregivers could open up mathematical conversations in the home.

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: Because in general, I think we kind of know and accept that we should read to our kids and have routines around literacy. But I think it's also helpful for us to think about how can mathematics be a part of that as well? So I took my kind of expertise in mathematics teaching, learning, and preparing mathematics teachers, a beautiful memory from my childhood to honor my parents, and Operation Feed the Ducks was born.

Jennia: Aww, I love that so much! What you say is just so, so true. And I was just—people, again, you can't see it, but just nodding the whole time, "Yes!" And thinking we do need to take away a lot of that stigma because it's so easy to get into that mindset of "I can't do it" or "It's hard" before you even tried. But if you introduce it to them early on and show no, not only is it not necessarily hard and that you are capable, but you are surrounded by it. You're already doing it. You already have that capability. I think that is just so fantastic.

Marrielle Myers: Yeah! I mean, we do things with patterns, we play board games. Right? Like, when kids play board games and they're rolling dice and it's like, that's not fair, right? Fairness is really a mathematical construct that we can talk a lot about. You know, when we wonder, how do you get to go more spaces than me, right? And when you're playing board games and sometimes you have to count out how many spaces you move forward. Like, that's a very specific mathematical skill of being able to recognize there's five dots on the dice, and so I have to move five dots on the game board. You know, we keep score when we play games. Like, we do so much with numbers.

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: And so we really are all math people. And so I really hope that Marlee can kind of disrupt that notion and that kids will see how she uses math with something she loves and start to think about it in their lives as well.

Jennia: Aww, that's so good. Well, so moving on to the packaging, what made you first decide to include some of these extra items?

Marrielle Myers: Yeah, so I have the books. And so the books were—they were wonderful to have. Right? And I thought about, how can I kind of spice this up more? I prefer to say that I love to stimulate the economy instead of (both laugh)—

Jennia: um, Yes, we can go with that! (laughs)

Marrielle Myers: I think of myself as, you know, consistently stimulating the economy. And so, because I do that, I also receive packages in the mail. And so as I was preparing to launch my business, I thought about what kinds of things do I like to see, right?

Jennia: Mmm, mhm!

Marrielle Myers: And so, of course, you know what you order. And so when you get your package, you're expecting to get what you order, but it's always exciting to see something else in there that you weren't expecting. Right?

Jennia: Yeah!

Marrielle Myers: And kids love stickers. Adults love stickers. So I said, "Let's have some stickers!" And then one of the stickers is just kind of branding with the Marlee Loves Math. And then the other one just says, "I love math!" Right? To kind of help with that affirmation—

Jennia: Yeah!

Marrielle Myers: —for people. And then I created another sticker that says, "You've got Marlee mail," which actually goes on the outside of the package, so that when it comes, people know what this is.

Jennia: Oh, yeah, that's a good idea!

Marrielle Myers: Yeah. Which is really exciting. And I just thought that that would kind of maybe make people smile when they saw it. And just those little things and those little feelings kind of go a long way, I would say.

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: I think lots of people like to color (Jennia laughs). You know, children and adults alike. And so I created a coloring page from one of my favorite scenes from the book.

Jennia: Mhm!

Marrielle Myers: And I just thought this would be nice because you could read the book and then children could have an opportunity to just kind of be creative and interpret that scene in their own way in color. And then the teacher and me said I have to create some math activities. So I created an activity sheet with some additional math problems. And my hope with that was that after people kind of read through the book, that they could engage in some of these problems with their own children, children they're caring for, teachers could use them in their practice as well to kind of keep the conversations going.

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: And that that would also kind of model what this could look like.

Jennia: Ohh, yeah.

Marrielle Myers: That was pretty important.

Jennia: Did you consider shipping costs when you were going through all the possible ideas and what to include and what not to include?

Marrielle Myers: I did! So my book is, right now, just available on my website. It's not yet available on any third party websites. I really wanted to be able to have some kind of ownership of the standard of quality for the book. And so by me having them printed—I had them printed with a domestic printer—

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: —I was able to, like, look at all of the books and make sure the quality was where I needed it to be. And that also meant that there would be a shipping cost.

Jennia: Ahh, right.

Marrielle Myers: And sometimes people think, "Oh, people aren't gonna pay for shipping. Not in an era where you can get free shipping for so many places." And so I think I was thinking about how can I add value to the packages that I'm offering? Because I am going to be asking people to pay for the book and pay for shipping. And so these were items that add value that kind of create a package. And I hope it also kind of made people feel like, "I'm really getting some bang for my buck here."

Jennia: Yeah! And I will say, just so everyone knows, too, from seeing your posts that you're doing incredibly well. So that's also another reason for people to sell direct and not always rely on those big third-party platforms.

Marrielle Myers: Yeah! I thought I was doing a soft launch, so I ordered 125 books and I said, "I'm just gonna do a soft launch. That'll kind of get me through December and then I'll kind of figure out where I'm gonna go from there." And so those sold in two days—

Jennia: Yeah, that is amazing.

Marrielle Myers: —and I was like, "Wow." And I will say I did kind of try to build buzz, right? I don't have a marketing degree. What I did was in the year or so preceding the launch of my book, and while I was just thinking about this journey, I just followed as many kind of indie authors and other authors as I could. So I've been kind of mentally collecting data for a long time now about what are other people doing? What gets me excited on social media, right? So I previewed the characters leading up to the launch of the book. I tried to interject a little bit about my story with my parents and the characters, and highlight some of the illustration. I had four packages that were available. Just the single book, two books, which was double the love. I had, like, a math bundle that included some counting blocks.

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: The fourth option was a donation option. And so I previewed each of those packages ahead of time as well. And so I think that also really helped. The donation option was important for two reasons. One, my godson has sickle cell and spends a lot of time in the hospital. And so being in the hospital and visiting him, I became aware of how many kids are kind of in the hospital by themselves.

Jennia: Yeah.

Marrielle Myers: And so the donation allowed me to have a partnership with a local hospital, and kids got a book, a coloring page, and crayons. So that was something that spoke to my heart.

Jennia: Yeah.

Marrielle Myers: From a business standpoint, for people that may not know children, may not have children, may not have grandchildren, it allows them a way to support the business. Also, because somet—you can't really say, "Oh I don't know any kids. I don't need a book." And it's like, oh, well, guess what? I have this donation option. Right? And it's in partnership with this hospital. And so that worked from a business and personal standpoint.

Jennia: And it's a good cause too. But it's more than just throwing money at something and not really knowing where that money goes. You're seeing directly how those children benefit, how you are improving their time during what is probably stressful for them anyway.

Marrielle Myers: Yes. And my godson signed those books with me. So I signed every book that was sent out and wrote a message and affirmation in it. Those books, my godson signed with me, and I gave him a little plaque to take with him when he's in the hospital. It says, "Be brave, little one." And so he wrote "Be brave" in each book for the donation. Yeah. So that was very special.

Jennia: Mhm. Well, did you have any other ideas that you ended up having to nix just because of maybe shipping costs, or costs for the item, or some other reason?

Marrielle Myers: I looked into having a plushie created because my character Marlee is so cute.

Jennia: She is so cute! (laughs)

Marrielle Myers: I love her, and so I'm like, "Oh, I need a plushie." And I got some quotes for that. And when I got the quotes, I said, "Okay, whoa." You know, this is gonna be an investment and it's gonna be like a lot of stock to have—

Jennia: Oh right!

Marrielle Myers: —at home. Which is important to think about because right now the books kind of have taken over. And so was something important for me to think about, right? Is that okay? Because I didn't use a third party site, I invested the money to print the books.

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: And I then had to say, you know what? Right now, I don't wanna invest this money to have the plushies made. And I'm glad I did that because I sold out of the first set of books so quickly, I needed to get more books.

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: The company that I use, the domestic company, they're able to print books in two days and then they ship in two days as well—

Jennia: Oh, that is so nice!

Marrielle Myers: Yeah. So in four business days you can have another set of books. And so after the first set of books went so quickly, I immediately contacted them for a second order. And if I would have had money kind of tied up in plushie design, it would have likely interfered with being able to get additional books. And I—you know, let me keep striking while the iron is hot, while I'm in kind of the holiday flow. Let's keep pushing forward—

Jennia: Yeah! Keep that momentum going. Exactly. Instead of having people maybe go somewhere else with their money because it's going to be a delay of a month or two months. But, yeah, they might have time sensitive reasons for wanting it too.

Marrielle Myers: Mhm! Exactly. Yeah. And so once I confirmed that they could get me a second order, a second set of books—I initially had to put sold out on everything on the website. But once I confirmed, I actually opened the website back up to start taking pre-orders. And so that was really important for me to do. So I was even selling some of those books via pre-orders before they came.

Jennia: Oh nice!

Marrielle Myers: Another thing I'll say is that I—in this process—have learned some basic kind of web skill to manage the website. You know, I initially hired someone, but in these instances where things move quickly, right? There's so—

Jennia: Oh yes!

Marrielle Myers: —many pre-orders. It was so helpful that I knew how to just go in and click those buttons. Right? Because I'm having to wait for someone else to do it. We don't know when they will do it. And I would never want someone to order something that I actually don't have in stock. Right?

Jennia: Right.

Marrielle Myers: I was able to go in, change the stuff to pre-order. I was able to go in and put a banner across the top that said "Pre-orders will ship on this date." And so, like, now it was very clear for customers. So it's been a one-stop shop. But I think it is important to do—to be able to communicate in real time with your customers.

Jennia: Oh yeah, I completely agree. And even just thinking about my own website, which I don't have those same kind of issues because it's editing services. But yeah, when I want to go in and add a new cover or maybe change a rate or add some other service on there, I do have someone do my web design. So it does come down to when are they available? When are they free? That sort of thing. So yeah, definitely see the benefit there.

Marrielle Myers: Yeah, yeah.

Jennia: So have you received any reader feedback from these extra items?

Marrielle Myers: I have! It's been really exciting. One thing I'll say is that, it's interesting because books we classify them by—because everybody asks, "What age is this appropriate for?" Right? And so for books, there are kind of some standard categories and age ranges for books. My book is unique because the math that's built into the book actually kind of can span beyond that age range. So I have had some feedback that children as young as two years old, were able to engage with the book—

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: —And of course they loved coloring, but they were able to engage with the book and with some of the counting. And that even children that were above the age range were able to also engage with some of the materials as well. I had a customer reach out, they ordered three books, and they said, "Each kid is gonna want their own and we don't want fights. So we're gonna want three books, but—"

Jennia: Yeah (laughs).

Marrielle Myers: "—one is a little more advanced with their mathematics. So what do you think about that?" And I said, "No worries. Thank you for letting me know. I'll actually customize their activity page."

Jennia: Oh! Awesome!

Marrielle Myers: I created that. Right? And, I mean, I'll be honest, like, it was in Microsoft Word. Like, it's not fancy. It's literally kind of like a worksheet (Jennia laughs) that I printed off and included. But that allowed me the flexibility to go in and change some of the numbers to make it a little more challenging.

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: And then I actually wrote on a little sticky note on that worksheet, I said, "I heard you love math as much as Marlee. I hope you love these challenge problems." And, I mean, that may have taken me a minute to do. But the customer was so excited because now their child, which was the older sibling of three, felt like they got something even more special. And so those kinds of things I hope leave an impression on people's heart. Right? And because this is gonna be a series for me—this is just the first book—I hope that people will continue to come back and want to engage with the brand.

Jennia: Yeah! And that you are going—I mean, you said it only took a minute, but still, you didn't have to take that minute. And that you are putting that personalized touch on there to match their reading experience, their level of math capability, I can definitely see how people are going to be just really touched by that and feel like this isn't just a sale for you, but that the reader matters.

Marrielle Myers: Yes, yes! And they really do. Because I want kids to not only think I am a math person. Right? But I can be a mathematician too! You know, because I think, I problem solve, I look at the world mathematically. And so if we can create opportunities through our different add-ons that people have—and I think that people can customize them for whatever the content of their story is. If we can create opportunities to kind of help kids own that, I think that's what really matters, yeah.

Jennia: Yeah! When you were researching some of these companies, even your printer or where you had your stickers done, how are you able to determine if a company was reputable or not?

Marrielle Myers: You know, it's interesting, right? 'Cause once you search for, like, one thing, you get inundated with it in your ads. 'Cause Big Brother is always watching (both laugh). So when I say I cannot get on my computer without a pop-up about stickers (Jennia laughs) somewhere? I mean, so I literally know probably 10 sticker companies I could name. And I did spend some time reading reviews. It was important for me to be able to get them quickly.

Jennia: Mmm.

Marrielle Myers: The quality was also important. And so I ordered from two companies. One company I was not as happy with, and I shared that with them because of the timing, the quality. The company that I was more happy with, again, they do like a two-day shipping model. Like, they're just very quick. And I will say with, like, the die-cut cut stickers, the company that I was happy with, the way their stickers are, like, all of the peel has that little split in them, right?

Jennia: Ahh, yes!

Marrielle Myers: —That make them easier to peel. And the other company, it was taking me so long to, like, try to actually, like, get a fingernail or something (Jennia laughs) in the peel get it. So I paid a little more for that company than others, but I'm very happy with them. We'll only use them moving forward. And the other thing I'll say is that all of these sticker companies have coupon codes floating around. So look for coupon codes because they're, like, just daily. They have them floating around.

Jennia: Yep! Yeah, exactly. Or just wait around, sign up for the mailing list because it feels like all the time they'll send stuff in.

Marrielle Myers: Exactly, yeah.

Jennia: Just wait a week and it'll be on sale.

Marrielle Myers: Oh, it'll be on sale, yeah.

Jennia: Well, have there been any items that have been a surprise hit with either parents or kids where you weren't expecting it to have the reception that it did?

Marrielle Myers: I think really the rubber duckies. So because the Operation Feed the Ducks, I've done two vendor events also just in the first month. And so I thought, "Oh, I'm gonna just buy rubber duckies to kind of have on the table to, like, look cute and for decoration." So I had, like, mason jars with rubber duckies. The kids love them. They come to the table, they wanna line them up, they wanna make patterns out of them, they wanna take them home. I mean, I just did not think that the rubber duckies would be such a hit (both laugh), and they are! I haven't been dropping them in the little bubble mailers to mail yet because I'm just not sure about, you know, how that works.

Jennia: Ohh, yeah.

Marrielle Myers: I haven't been mailing with Media Mail. I've been using Ground Advantage. But there are rules about how thick they can be. Now that the holiday craze is over, I can actually go in there and talk with someone to ask.

Jennia: Right (laughs).

Marrielle Myers: Yeah. 'Cause it's not gonna affect the weight at all. It's more so about the thickness. But, I mean, I order those in bulk. I mean, and they end up being like 11-cent apiece, maybe—

Jennia: Oh wow. Yeah. 

Marrielle Myers: So that is something I would also say is as people are thinking about add-ons—I know some people do sticker sheets and all kinds of things—you do wanna think about what that per unit cost is gonna be.

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: Because that can add up quickly. So, like, yes, you wanna add value, but it is important that you also have some kind of eye on profit. Because some of these die-cut stickers can be 50 cent each, right? So if you're just giving—

Jennia: Or more, yeah.

Marrielle Myers: —Or more, right? Depending on how many you order, you can be giving away a few dollars in stickers and if not paying attention to it, it's like, oh, I'm eating into my profit margin—

Jennia: Yes!

Marrielle Myers: —which is important, especially as an indie person, and you're kind of maybe making your own investment.

Jennia: Mhm. It reminds me of, like, when you go to the Target dollar spot and you have that mentality of, "Well, this is only a dollar, and this is only a dollar." And then you go to the checkout and it is a shock.

Marrielle Myers: Exactly! Yeah. 'Cause I've gotten too many dollar things. I—at first I was even just throwing stickers in packages and, "Oh! Stickers, stickers!" And then as I was running low on my first set of stickers, I'm like, "Oh, what happened to my sticker?" (Jennia laughs). And, you know, throwing stickers like confetti. So I'm like, "Maybe I need to maybe put one sticker per pack and just kind of choose instead of giving every sticker." And then that also makes me think because people enjoy them—'cause customers have sent pictures with them on their kids Chromebooks or book bags. I said maybe I should have an option for people to, like, add on a sticker pack. Right?

Jennia: Ohh, yeah!

Marrielle Myers: They maybe to do that. So maybe I have one that's kind of the giveaway sticker. But then maybe people can, like, add on a sticker pack. So that's something I'm looking into now.

Jennia: The upgrade version, yes.

Marrielle Myers: Exactly! Exactly.

Jennia: Yeah, I was going to ask, do you have any ideas for future items to include, especially as the book moves into the whole series?

Marrielle Myers: Yeah. So I am finalizing the activity book now. And that activity book has math activities, literacy activities, and coloring pages. This morning I thought maybe I should also just have a coloring book because people enjoy that so much and kids sometimes color so quickly. So I'm actually going to reach out to my illustrator to see a) how much it's going to cost to get some coloring pages designed and what a turnaround time could be. But that's something that there is definitely an interest for.

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: The math counting blocks have really kind of been a hit. And for this particular book, the counting blocks makes sense. I'll say something I'm thinking about now is a possible shift between printing things off and including them in mailings versus having free downloads on the website.

Jennia: Ahh, right.

Marrielle Myers: I wanted things to be accessible. I didn't want anyone to, like, [miss out] because they don't have a printer, right? They can't offer this for their learner. Which was why I was including them in the packages.

Jennia: Mhm.

Marrielle Myers: But as the business continues to grow, that is not going to always be as feasible. And even with the best packaging, even though I include a cute little sticker that says "Do not bend, handle with care," right? Sometimes because they are individual pages, they can arrive a little crumpled. So that's something that I'm also thinking about. And then I might do, like, an e-version, so if people wanna just print them all out, they can or they can buy them. Then I think that will help me feel like, okay, I don't have to mail so much. Which helps with assembly time because assembly, you know, takes a lot.

Jennia: Yeah! Especially since you're still doing it all on your own too.

Marrielle Myers: Exactly.

Jennia: And also that extra space in your house, too, with all the stacks of coloring sheets and stacks of activity sheets.

Marrielle Myers: Oh yeah. I have six-foot tables out and the dining table (Jennia laughs). Like, I got a system. I got smarter as I did it. But it's definitely still pretty intense.

Jennia: Mhm. Well, where can listeners learn more about you and your book and maybe see what's coming next?

Marrielle Myers: Absolutely! Thank you. Listeners can visit www.marleelovesmath.com. And I am also available on Facebook and Instagram at marleelovesmath.

Jennia: All right, well, thank you so much for all this wonderful information!

Marrielle Myers: Thank you so much! I'm so excited and so ready to engage with listeners. So please reach out, let's connect, and let's continue to learn from each other and support each other!

Jennia: Aww, thank you so much!

Marrielle Myers: Thank you!

Jennia: And thank you for listening, and be sure to check out the show notes including all of these links and that's where we'll have all the additional information. And then please join me next week when Shaylin Gandhi will tell us how to write strong female characters. Thanks again!